laser vs propecia

I realize that some people have good results with propecia. For most of us in the forums, though, it's a damn sad joke (and I feel a HUGE marketing scam, but I'm not going into that now) and doesn't do a damn thing for anybody except temporarily get your hopes up -which is usually followed by a big fall.

We also don't have proof about really long term results with lasers, either. We do know that propecia becomes ineffective over time -proven- and we do know that with the way that lasers work as shown by over 40 years of study -by the healing/regeneration of tissue among other things- lasers SHOULDN'T become ineffective and they should keep working as long as you use them.

So, in summary, if you're looking for "peer reviewed proof" for everything I just said... you'll have to wait (and there are FDA trails going on for a hood device as we speak). If you're looking for "peer proof", it's all around you!

Again, why only now are companies getting proper peer reviewed studies done with proper laser devices? Hairmax.... look no further than them. That set us all back a decade, and made it so what I just said in this post isn't common knowledge when it should be Hair Loss Fighting 101.

-O.M.G.

I was obviously confined to aswering the question with the constraints given, but if anyone DOES have results with propecia, the good news is that there is no such thing as "lasers vs. propecia"... you can take BOTH!

As far as propecia being a marketing scam, I don't know what else to call it. First, doctors STILL will tell you that propecia/minox together have an 80% success rate -when there isn't anyone in here, except someone brand spanking new to this, that would believe that for a second. Yet that's been said for 15 years, more than likely the inverse of that is true if anything, and they still get away with saying that for some reason. No accountability.

Second, the forums -including this one until several years ago- STILL have an aire to them than anything other than minox and propecia are laughable. Yet, thousands and thousands of people have been trying them for the decade that forums have been around, and there are FEW results... but still, no one changes there mentality. It's like everyone MISSES the fact that the success rate is lousy with these things, and they sweep it under the rug.

The CREME DE LA CREME, though, is when ONE PERSON will post "amazing" success pictures with propecia and minox, and there is a stampede from all the forums over to that thread to eagerly see the pictures! It's almost like people are patting themselves on the back or something! ONE PERSON. ...After a solid decade of thousands and thousands of failures, and that somehow makes people feel vindicated. That's AMAZING! lol...

Also, most people now know that inflammation is a HUGE part to this. It sounds silly now to think that inflammation was a revolutionary topic, but if you check back only a couple of years... you'll see that there was tons of fights about it -because it didn't fit into Merck's game plan. To Merck, DHT binds to receptors and clogs the follicles, and that's how they atrophy. You'd be a "target" at any forum claiming that silly little inflammation was to blame! lol...

And... there are NO PRODUCTS to date that are approved by the FDA for MPB that target inflammation. Isn't that odd?! Wouldn't a company that interested in growing hair do that?! Sad... people still think that "fda approval" means something.

"Denial" is an amazing thing with MPB sufferers, and for some reason... people are in denial about how pitiful those fda approved products are. People are in denial that their follicles die after they go slick bald, too. ...And now, especially with some other forums -and some of the "offenders" are moderators- they are in denial about lasers, the one thing that actually stops hair loss and changes your hair for the better.

So, a big "marketing scam" sort of expains all of this, and the "looking for anything to help, but still in denial" attitude of the MPB sufferer perpetuates it.

Don't underestimate the power of marketing... Remember Sandman?! Remember there used to be threads almost weekly about Dr. Klein's Promox and/or Spectral DNC? They stopped instantly as soon as he was banned. Yeah, he was obviously a pusher -he was ridiculously transparent- but I think some of these people at the other sites are less obvious, but still pushers.

That's all, and NO... I haven't had my coffee yet this morning! lol...

-O.M.G.

Word!

That ONE, SINGLE REASON that you mentioned should be enough to piss everyone off so much that they'd want to get their pitchforks and burn down the Merck building! How would I, OverMachoGrande, be talked about if I sold a 5mW diode for scar healing for $1, but I sold that exact same diode for hair loss for $10?! It's the same thing, but for some reason everyone gives Merck a pass with the whole "well, they have a right to make money because of all the research blah blah blah".

I suggest that anyone that sells something in the US to do this... next time you get a minority customer -black, hispanic, asian, whatever- charge him ten times as much for the same product you'd charge a white customer. Ok, now swap "minority customer" with "balding customer", and "white customer" with "prostate customer", and you'll have the exact same thing. The *only* difference is that there is a constitutional amendment that says you can't discriminate based on race. But to me... the principles are still the same.

It's just WRONG to do that. It'd be one thing if prostate customers got proscar cheaper because it was "bundled" with other prostate medicines so Merck can still make money, but that's not the case... it's the same damn chemical composition, only a bigger pill -which should cost MORE, actually, not less.

-O.M.G.

Come on now. Lets not get carried away here. Not everyone responds, but most will hold on to their hair alot longer on finasteride, rather than letting nature takes it course.

And No the drug does not suddenly stop working after 5 years. There are lots of people maintaining for more than ten years. It is the poor responders or those unfortunate enough to get side effects that who are most active in these forums. They are a very loud minority. Then there are those with advanced loss with unrealistic expectations.

If you extrapolate the timeline after the 5 year propecia studies. It can very well take more than 10 years to go below baseline... Even after falling below baseline, finasteride may prevent one from reaching their intened NW staus. Going to NW 3 at 40, instead of 4 or 5 for example. Those with agressive loss... destined for high Norwood status will likely lose ground faster. We have yet to see if a laser can stop someone from going NW 7.

Re:

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Of course we have.

I think some people are forgetting that LLLT has not been around for 16 months but has been around for about 15 years.

I remember one poster on this board who said he didn't understand why people don't believe in LLLT as the country he lives in people have been going to laser clinics for 10 years with great results.

So again, if you go to a laser clinic, you'll probably track somebody down who has been using a clinical laser hood for "very" long periods. It's usually the workers, or the owner, but even so, you'll still find a customer here or there that has used it for long periods.