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Sandman
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,311

Minoxidil Sulfate

Those interested in Minoxidil Sulfate may wish to review the following post by Dr. Proctor.

"Dr P sez: The problem is that minxidil sulfate is unstable in solution, hydrolyzing back to minoxiidl.

See: G. A. Johnson, K. J. Barsuhn, J. M. McCall. Biochem Pharmacol., 1982 Sep 15;31(18):2949-54. Sulfation of minoxidil by liver sulfotransferase.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=6958263&query_hl=36"

Peter H. Proctor, PhD,MD

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sinere-advisor
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 617

Re: Minoxidil Sulfate

That is not new. We also said that the stability is the problem, didn`t we. But instead of just saying "oh too sad, we can`t help it." , we try to get it more stable. It is mainly the water which harms the MS. I have hope that the consistence of the Gel will also help to increase stability. Also, there will be an equilibirum and one can calculate the MS fraction if one knows the dissociation degree or constant. The more you put in, the higher will be the MS fraction. It the same story with all salts. I already described that in an earlier post. It is a difficult task, no doubt, but there some new interesting technologies nowadays available which should be tested on this issue. I am not talking blahblah here. I can show you an article where a substance was protected from hydrolysis by special liposomes. In addition to the liposomes they used a substance which they also incorporated into the liposomes, in order to keep the drug inside the liposomes and maybe form a complex with the drug:

"Development of a highly active nanoliposomal irinotecan using a novel intraliposomal stabilization strategy."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16540680?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"CPT-11 was also protected from hydrolysis to the inactive carboxylate form and from metabolic conversion to SN-38 while circulating."

Well, "circulating in the blood", I guess one can call that an aqueous solution.

Sandman said: Those interested in Minoxidil Sulfate may wish to review the following post by Dr. Proctor.

"Dr P sez: The problem is that minxidil sulfate is unstable in solution, hydrolyzing back to minoxiidl.

See: G. A. Johnson, K. J. Barsuhn, J. M. McCall. Biochem Pharmacol., 1982 Sep 15;31(18):2949-54. Sulfation of minoxidil by liver sulfotransferase.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=6958263&query_hl=36"

Peter H. Proctor, PhD,MD



Last Edited On Jan-13-2008 at 12:10 PM.

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Jacob
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Registered: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,746
 		Doesn't Divine Skin claim to use MS? ;)

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valderama
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Registered: Jun 2005
Posts: 742
 		they surely do but is it encapsulated?

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sinere-advisor
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 617

Re:

If they really use MS, they have to write it in the ingredients list on their bottles and on their page. But they don`t. They just tell you by emails and in forums. Minoxidils sulfate contains sulfur in the sulfate group. But sulfur has to be mentioned in the ingredients list. Sulfur is part of some shampoos. For example take a look on the ingredients list of the Alpecin shampoo, I guess it was there where I also read sulfur. Even if all MS gets degraded to plain Minox, there will be still the sulfate ions around in the solution, so you have to mention it in the one or other way. So they say something different in emails and forums than on their bottle and page. How do you call that? And the reason for this is obvious, just use common sense. You experienced users of the boards are not scared away from a rather chemical name like Minoxidil sulfate, also you don`t think you get the wrong stuff, no, it is just the other way round, you want that stuff. But how about the many not experienced customers who just visited their dermatologist and got told "get yourself some Minox" ? They don`t know MS, they know Minox and may think the MS is the wrong stuff for them ... So good reason to not mention MS ... Oh, btw, ask them if they use Minoxidil sulfate ethylated, I wonder if they will answer you this. If so, they even don`t mention the ethyl groups in their ingredients list, lol. But hey, remember your own first hair loss days. You get told "get some Mionx", would you have bought "minoxidil sulfate ethylated" in those days??? The ethylated form is better water soluble and it is often used to create Minoxidil products. They said themselves years ago on hairsite that "their special minoxidil sulfate" is especially good soluble in water. I know only about 2 forms of MS and the ethylated form is especially water soluble. It enables one to achieve higher Minox concentrations. But if it is better water soluble it is also very likely less stable in water. I asked a company who sells the ethylated version about its stability compared with normal MS, but they were not able to answer me this question, they just know it is very well soluble in water and often used for cosmetic Minox products. The latter comment makes me guess that there may be this kind of Minox in many products but they likely don`t tell you. We don`t use the ethylated version. And I point out that I don`t know what they really use, but who on this planet does know that ? ...



Last Edited On Jan-14-2008 at 4:49 AM.

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Jacob
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Registered: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,746
 		Probably only in the bottle it comes in.

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Jacob
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Registered: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,746

Re:

valderama said: they surely do but is it encapsulated?

Probably only in the bottle it comes in.

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BobTheBuilder
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,803
 		Jake lol.

Sinere MS version seems to give more kick the Nanominox. Lotion is kept in the fridge.

I dont know how long MS stays effective TB4 stays effective for 20 days should be longer kept in the fridge.



Last Edited On Jan-14-2008 at 3:11 AM.

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Sandman
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,311
 		The sinere-advisor spends a lot of time on this forum promoting, and advertising, his products. Fine!

However, now the sinere-advisor has taken to idle speculation as to what may, or may not, be contained in other Minoxidil solutions, i.e.

Jacob; “Doesn't Divine Skin claim to use MS?"

sinere-advisor; "If they really use MS, they have to write it in the ingredients list on their bottles and on their page. But they don`t. They just tell you by emails and in forums".

Not only has the sinere-advisor presented no actual evidence to support his assertions, in regard to the formulation of other Minoxidil solutions, his asserions are clearly self serving in nature.

The sinere-advisor should submit an independent lab analysis to support his assertions. Otherwise, said assertions are based on nothing more then his personal, self-serving, conjecture.

Furthermore, the sinere-advisor would be well advised to review the USA laws for product fraud and liability. What he'll learn is that companies can be held liable for fraudulent email statements, as well as any other sort of public, and/or private, statements in regard to their products.

Finally, I'd be interested to see the sinere-advisor present an actual comparative double blind scientific research study showing hair growth results from the use of Minoxidil vs. Minoxidil Sulfate.



Last Edited On Jan-14-2008 at 1:35 PM.

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bcapop
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Aug 2007
Posts: 825
 		WTF Sandman..

Too bad people can't be banned from this forum for posting utter crap.



Last Edited On Jan-14-2008 at 2:03 PM.

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