08.28.09

09.13.09

10.17.09

Then the last two pictures...see the dates? A month apart. All the pics are a total of 3 months- as even the title says.. It's no wonder some are so gullible for things like..well I'm not even going to mention names or product names.

Lasers causing shedding..and Spectral...Hmmmm....

It doesn't matter WHAT he used. You do not get results like that- your hair cannot even grow like that- in that amount of time. When I first looked at the pics I'm like..Ok..the second one is worse than the first. The others just look like longer hair. Then I see the time-frame.

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Some pictures from my hair journey.

05.03.08

07.31.08

09.02.08

10.03.08

11.05.08

05.17.09

06.29.09

08.01.09

09.02.09

09.20.09

10.04.09

So what do you think the reason for your terrible shed between May and August 2009?

Do you think it is because you have stopped to use Minoxidil or because of the laser? Which laser device did you use? How many diodes? How many minutes you used per session and how many times per week?

Are you still using the laser device now? Do you use only 1/5 Proscar and DNC now? Or other things as well? I have to say that your result is great!!!!

I had no any benefit from my 210 diodes silicone helmet which i used 15-20 minutes per session and 3 times per week.

I stopped my weird leser toy in July.

I also use retinol, azleic creams, dermaroller and bepanthen amps.

Spectral dnc is clear don't make the scalp any color after wash. I think it is not good for daytime if you have long hair.

What will be your routine to use all those products together with DNC? What is the bepanthen amps? How does it help to compat the hair loss? Thanks !!

You said you dermaroll twice a week and was wondering what time of the day and if you applied any topicals afterwards.

http://oth.strawberrynet.com/haircare/ds-laboratories/

My terminal hairs was getting thinner and thinner after drop dnc. When i start my regime my all white and dark hairs was getting thicker and fuller so dark hairs covered white. Some peach fuzz getting longer and darker in my temple. I was very bad shed (20-30 hairs) as you see in pic. First month of my regime shed too then did not.

I use 0.5-mm bought from http://www.dr-roller.eu/

1/5 Proscar Dermaroll Bepanthen Serum Retinol Azleic Creams Spectral DNC Revita Shampoo

Is this correct?

Also, could you please elaborate on your bad experience with your LLLT usage? I had a similar experience with massive shedding while on LLLT - but just can't find any reason the LLLT helmet would actually cause this. Any thoughts or experiences on your LLLT treatment would be appreciated as I can't decide whether to keep it going or not. How long after you stopped LLLT did you start to see your hair coming back? - It looks like 3 months.

Thanks, NQ

ie. One of your first pics 8/28/09 you changed to 8/1/09? Which is it?

I used may laser helmet 6 months and didn't get any benefit. Dropping dnc was bad mistake for me and i lost my hair. After started to use dnc my hair gettin fuller and thicker. My pictures dates are ok.

and my last pic..

Do you apply the Spectral DNC before dermarolling or afterwards? Lipoxidil's website said to apply it before rolling but I can't see much of an advantage in doing that. It would waste a bit of the serum and get the roller messy. The liposomes should penetrate just fine with applying it after rolling IMO. Would one let the lipsomoes dry before rolling for best results if one was to roll afterwards? Just don't see how rolling afterwards would be that much more advantageous.

Plus any significant hair length differences completely confuses the photo evidence. It almost makes it totally pointless. Viva la comb over. I agree with Jacob on that.

Differences in lighting and grooming can make dramatic differences in appearance of coverage. I mean huge, I can see with myself in the mirror with mine own eyes.

I am not saying he out deceive anyone, I just want real evidence, not this stuff. And the technology is there, why not use it? And this go for clinics, studies, scalpure, every latest new cure, lllt, fin, minox, everybody. Put out real evidence guys with real technology! That is my request. These simple before and after photos are so lame when it comes to MPB. We can do better.

http://s617.photobucket.com/albums/tt254/kerkanco/

Does spectral DNC cause any scalp irritations? I cannot even touch rogain due to itz effects on my scalp. Has anyone tried Spectral DNC that could not use minoxidil?

Would never try spectral dnc as it is minox as well.. just a different brand.

I'am taking spectral dnc.

I use 4 days of week bepanthen serum (dexpanthenol), creams and dnc together and leave on the scalp 20-30 minutes before wash in the morning time.

I buy the serum from drogstore in Turkiye. I think you can buy it from drogstres in Austuria. It is not expensive.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BEPANTHENE 500 MG/2ml 5 AMP.

http://www.ilacabak.com/ilacgosteren.php?Id=5191

Lava212: Thanks for the information, I have had a look on the website from Hairstart, but it is funny that they do not mention the delivery cost at all, I wonder how high the cost will be to send the Hairstart Dex to Europe. By the way are you from US? Have you ordered the Hairstart Dex already? If so how high is the shipping cost?

Thanks again and have a nice day!!

One packet (has 2 mlx5 =10 ml) serum is 3,30 T.L.= 1,40 Euro

The shipping is 7.61 dollars or 5.83 euros.

I live in Topeka, Kansas, USA and emailed the company because my billing address is different from from shipping address and I couldn't get around their setup. I'm planning on ordering asap. I may call the company and just order over the phone.

There are not any websites to order the serum from Turkey.

Also, Kerkanco: what is the ratio of creams to water that you use when mixing? 1:1? And about how much of each? thanks

Lava212: I have just ordered the Scalp Therapy Dexpanthenol Hair Loss Natural HLCC on Ebay, it is the same product as Hairstart Dex which you told me before. I am thinking the ideal way to use all the creams+DNC as well, I may try to put on the dexpanthenol first, wash my hair after 10 minutes, then the DNC, then retinol and the azelaic acid , twice a day.

I would be glad if Kerkanco can tell us the ratio between the azelaic acid, retinol and water as well!!

Thanks and have a nice day!!

I used DNC sometime ago, lost much hair that never returned. I hate this product!

If it works for you, good luck.

BTB

I think creams increase absorption of minoxil but when i use more dex. side effects happen not with creams.

I was thinking of adding apple poly topical (procyanidin) to the creams in place of water because I have some containers lying around. I read this article and wondered if this agreed with my idea that it would be a nice additive to the regimen. It seems like procyanidins protect lipids and DNC is composed of liposomes. Can't be bad in my opinion. Anyone else think it might be helpful and not detrimental? The apple poly company said not to mix procyanidins with oil because it would degrade them, but I think only if the concoction were to sit for an extended period of time, thus decreasing the procyanidin potency by having them being used in oxidative prevention of the oil. Just my thoughts.

Flavan-3-ols and procyanidins protect liposomes against lipid oxidation and disruption of the bilayer structure:

The antioxidant activity and the membrane effects of the flavanols (-)-epicatechin, (+)-catechin, and their related oligomers, the procyanidins, were evaluated in liposomes composed by phosphatidylcholinehosphatidylserine (60:40, molar ratio). When liposomes were oxidized with a steady source of free radicals, the flavanols and procyanidins (25 ?M monomer equivalents) inhibited oxidation in a manner that was related to procyanidin chain length. Flavanols and procyanidins did not influence membrane fluidity or lipid lateral phase separation. However, flavanols and procyanidins induced a decrease in the membrane surface potential and protected membranes from detergent-induced disruption. These effects were dependent on flavonoid concentration, procyanidin chain length, and membrane composition. Flavanol- and procyanidin-induced inhibition of lipid oxidation was correlated with their effect on membrane surface potential and integrity. These results indicate that the interaction of flavanols and procyanidins with phospholipid head groups, particularly with those containing hydroxyl groups, is associated with a reduced rate of membrane lipid oxidation. Thus, flavanols and procyanidins can potentially reduce oxidative modifications of membranes by restraining the access of oxidants to the bilayer and the propagation of lipid oxidation in the hydrophobic membrane matrix.

what is the final optimal formula then

Right now its dex in the morning for 10-15 min., wash out with revita, and then apply the creams/procyandin combo. Then wait 30 min and apply DNC. Internally take fin and apple poly capsule. In the evening wash hair and apply DNC and dermaroll it in after it dries. Wait a half hour and apply the creams/procyanidin combo. Internally take black tea extract and apple poly capsule.

Happy New Year to all of you!!

I have been using this regimen for the last few weeks: Everyday in the morning I use Dexpanthenol and let it sit for about 10 min. I wash it off and then apply Spectral. I again apply Spectral in the evenings. On Monday, Wednesday, and Friday I add azelaic acid in the morning after Spectral. In the evenings I put Spectral on first and then put retinol after. Then I dermaroll them together. I take fin every morning with apple polyphenols. In the evenings I take black tea extract with an apple polyphenol capsule. I trampoline whenever I watch tv, which feels great and for me is addictive. Trampolining, I think, helps the absorption of topicals. Its like packing a can of chew. As you hit the bottom of the bounce the topicals continue to travel into your scalp while you stop. Its like a car crash. The car stops but you continue on your course through the windshield. Not to mention the circulation of lymph and detoxifying properties. Increased gravitational force forces the cells to work more effectively. They have to bare the brunt of the G force and must bind together to keep the body's integrity. Very good overall.

@unfortunate-the same exact thinghappened to me with foam. It crept up on me bigtime and didnt even notice until I saw a pic of of some fat dude w my gf online and it was me!! i'm not fat nor chinese nor am I old. Foam made me all these things in about 4 months. My hair has been shit ever since then. I read a guy who used gloves to apply and stopped applying to a wet scalp was able to get rid of the puffiness. I think we have to go the adenosine route.

This is probably why rogain ad emphasize that you use it on the crown ... so that is far from the face and you never notice the effect up there. I probably should avoid near face application.

But hey Lakers ... what gloves had to do with face .... gloves are to protect hands not the face

What i'd like to do is find a way to get the same minoxidil-like regrowth affect, but without the crappy sides. I'm kind of curious to know what natural compound minoxidil is actually derived from - does anyone know? Maybe that compound can do the same thing without the nasty sides, from manipluating it? Or is minoxidil already found in nature in that state?

Are there any other people that have experienced these sides? Has anyone come across a good minoxidil alternative without the sides?

75 for a shampoo?

unfortunate..before jumping on spectral rs you need to know the concentration of adenosine (%) inthe formula. Let me know what you come up with

Evening: (external): NANO shampoo, Spectral DNC, dermaroll (5days/week), after three hours; Prox-N mixed with azelaic acid. (internal): blacktea extract, 500mg procyanidin b2.

I workout with weights 4x/week, and trampoline whenever I can. I really feel trampolining must be beneficial, among other things.

I'm tired of dicking around and my patience has worn thin. OMG's rants set me back years, and wasted my precious time thats needed to fight this.

Diffused lasers are the ones that people manually remove the lens to get more coverage, but by doing that the lasers loose some of its power. Undiffused laser are the ones still with there lens in them, so it has less coverage but more power.

I know for sure that undiffused lasers thicken my hair. I just switched back to undiiffused , so I will post if my hair thickens back up. Also just added Spectral DNC too, so that will probably influence my results though

I have had no real sides from minox or finasteride. Blacktea extract is supposed to be similar to finasteride in terms of DHT reduction. Adenosine and other side-effect free chemicals may be your best bet if you react negatively to minox.

Herbal topicals worked for me a few years ago. Funny that it seems like my hairloss has improved during the times I trampolined. Not suggesting it did it alone but just something I thought about. Follicles bathed in stimulating chemicals as they are being strengthened and "healthified" by bouncing may just be the trick for me.

montrose23: thats interesting. I know diffused didn't do jack for me. I focused my lasers and made a new design but didn't give it a good trial. I just didn't want that sense of doubt in the back of my head, because lasers didn't pan-out after so much time invested. If I knew it would work, I MAY use it but I just want to end this game. Why did you switch to diffused if you were getting good results, and how long did it take to notice with lasers undiffused? Diffused lasers spread the beams at a bad angle and very little penetrate vary far IMO.

http://www.healthbounce.com/33ways.htm

http://www.healthbounce.com/march-newsletter.htm

http://www.immunesystem.org/

I used my device for about 4 months before I really noticed the improvement. I also just loved the way the device made my scalp feel after I was used. While using the diffused lasers, i barely felt any sensation after I used it.

@lava212 So do you believe lasers made your situation worse? if so how so? can you please share your experience with me?what type of device? treatment times? how long before you threw in the towel? I'm very curious as I am at 10 months now and I can't say I've had success but I really do believe in lasers as I've had success with them in the past. I don't know how to feel about it honestly. The first few months my hair thickened right up. Ever since then its been a rollercoaster. I know there are other things that lasers to do the scalp that could help(inflammmation, sod etc.) a strong regimen however I get sides from fin. havn't tried dut. minox made me look like a blowfish. my options are limited to say the least.

@montrose. 60 lasers isnt very many. i would definitely go back to what was working.

ps lava where to get the dexpanthenol?

Too bad he cut it:

I got my dexpanthenol at dexpanthenol.net. It lasts me about 3.5 months per bottle and I have one full one left.

Hairloss, i guess, can be related to having a nail fungus that never goes away. Sure, there isn't much physical detriments to both, but its only time when it starts to get on your nerves and drives you crazy. Its all for the world to see, but I imagine ones would sympathize more with women who had hand nail problems because baldness seems to have been beaten into society as usual or commonplace. Just some thoughts. I can't wait to tell others of the hell that hairloss sufferers endure. Should be fun putting it in perspective for others to understand, but first I have to feel comfortable speaking on the issue without coming off as "whiney". A full head of hair should do the trick, because I can openly talk about it without feeling ashamed, not that one should be, but it seems that way sometimes.

By the way can you also tell me the blends of the blacktea extract and 500mg procyanidin b2 that you are using, and where do you get them from? It seems that Iherb is not offering them.

Thanks in advance and have a good hair day!!!

the procyanidin b2 is from applepoly.com

I have one month left of the applepoly and think it should be sufficient.

Also about the black tea lava212-I made a post on Immortal a few days ago about this wondering whether or not it would be wise to take it as a subsitute for an antiandrogen and immortal said no its still too early and the formulas would not be effective.

@montrose I'm using approx 330 lasers diffused in a Messiah 2. Jus sticking it out I guess. I'm waiting till the 12 month April 10. 2010 to assess the situation fully but I can assure you that there hasnt been a whole lot to report except for some heavy shedding periods and still consistent shedding for the most part.

The ingredients are deionized water, panthenol, ethanol, Glycerin, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Carbomer 940, Methylparaben, citric acid.

Is only left on the scalp for 5-10 min so I am not too conserned about the alcohol and methylparaben. My scalp seems to be able to take anything. No irritation what-so-ever. Just a slight flushing sometimes, as I imagine its the alcohol increasing absorption. I shampoo with revita afterwards and this approach has worked so far for me. I just can't stand oiliness. If dryness does happen, not for a while, its just ashy. I can deal with that.

I haven't been eating very well lately and I'm gonna stiffen up my internal approach to maximize what I'm doing. I've been drinking coffee, smoking cigs, taking kava kava, jwh-073, cannabis, eating salty foods. not much vegetables or fruits. Just working out.

I love cat stevens hair (and music)

I have even tried diode laser and had terrible shedding after one month of use. Now I am planning to use Spectral DNC. Also if you guys can suggest any good shampoo or solution to prevent scaling.

thanks!

Thanks and have a nice day!!

http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums/viewthread.cfm?f=6&t=25216#155907

This thread has almost 150 replies and takes longer to load each time!

I stand corrected. Its at $33 right now.

I'm a new member here and was reading thru all these forums. Your results seem really exciting and is making me believe that I could regrow my lost hair!

I'm thinking about starting out with a regimen similar to the one you have been using. But I'm not sure where I could buy all the stuff from. So it would be really helpful if you could provide me with some information about the best places(and brands, if any) to shop for these stuff, especially dermaroll, lamas serum, azelic acid, retinol and Dexpanthenol.

Thanks.

My friend who is balding always says that I shouldn't worry about the trivial amount I need to regrow as his is worse than mine. Most of the time he cannot even notice that I have a hair issue. I however won't be satisfied until I get all that is coming (back) to me.

What size derma roller do you use?

For retinol, do you use a cream or a serum? There are so many of them out there on nextag and i'm really not sure which one to buy!

Thanks again for you inputs. I really appreciate it.

Also, did they change formulation for both of them?

Lava212, has the formula change affected you at all?

Thanks for the reply. I wanna try spectral DNC-L, but i don't know anymore..