Hairloss Forums: Question about minoxidil alternatives

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unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

I'm new the board but have been reading for a while. I'm a 26 year old male who has been struggling with hair loss for a while. I first noticed it when I was 17 with a receeded hairline which hasn't really gotten any worse with the years. The rest of my hair was very thick all over until my early twenties, when I started losing a lot more. I tried some natural alternatives for a while but didn't get great results ( I may not have stuck it out long enough though either). At age 23 I started trying different minoxidil solutions - Promox, Spectral DNC off and on. Both gave me good results. I recently went off promox about a year ago because of sides (breast pain and puffiness) and just overall feeling lethargic. I switched to laser helmet (messiah - 450 LED's) after going off minox cold turkey and the shed started and continued for months and just kept getting worse- it was probably the worst my hair ever got. So out of desperation I got on spectral dnc again for 4-5 months and it really helped thicken my hair up again and I even see quite a few dark little hairs all over my receeded hairline that has been smooth with vellous hair since I was 17. There is only one problem now - I am getting what I like to call "minox face" - it seems to happen anytime I use minoxidil based solutions - dry skin (more wrinkly), horrbile puffy dark circles under the eyes and just more of a haggard and puffy look to my face.

I have a few questions... Maybe for people that are exeperienced with natural alternatives, like Jaydee and some of the other guys... Is there any way I can get off the minox and minimize the shed while working with some natural alternatives (diet, topicals) to continue to stimluate healthy hair growth? Are there any minoxidil like natural solutions that might work the same way, but without the horrible side effects?

I'm open to any ideas and input people might have.

1/30/2010 4:07 PM

dhtloather1
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 107

Sorry to tell you but I don't think there's anything that works as good as Minox and Fin. Some people say they've had success with other stuff but I dont know and wouldn't bother because there are hundreds of products that CLAIM to stop hairloss but it's not practical to try every one of them to find out which one works and which doesn't. I'm sticking to minox -though it's Dr. Lee's Xandrox this time since the Kirkland brand that I'd been using for years was too greasy and irritating- and I'm also taking Fin and Avodart.

2/8/2010 12:32 PM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Yeah, I do know that is the general consensus in the mainstream medical practice, but I have to believe there is something that will give us at least similar results without these horrible side effects. I don't think the side effects are worth it. I'm still on the search for that holy grail.

Thanks for leaving a note by the way. You seem to be the only one in over a week.

2/8/2010 1:38 PM

Zixcreator
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2009
Posts: 298

Unfortunate. I'm assuming you are having side effects from 5% minox or higher. We have some data to support the fact that 2% minox is about 2/3's as effective as the 5% stuff. This would reduce systemic absorption of minox by more than 50% and you would still, in theory, retain 2/3's the benefit. It may be enough to get rid of the side effects.

There are also some natural things you could add to the minox to help make it more effective as well. Things that reduce DHT or block the receptor sites for DHT.

Last Edited On Feb-8-2010 at 5:49 PM.

2/8/2010 3:24 PM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Thanks for the suggestion Zix. I actually used a few batches of Super Zix II a while back, but my scalp didn't seem to get a long with it very well even after reducing the alcohol level. I am looking for something that stimulates hair growth, but at the same time doesn't have the horrible sides I've had with Minox/propecia. It seems I am really prone to systemic side effects, even from a very low concentration of topical propecia (Promox). These drugs just suck period. I am not convinced that reducing DHT is really the way to beat this thing. I think DHT might be something that starts a chain re-action that ultimately causes the fibrosis and damage etc, but I know dht is absolutely essential for the male body. I'm still searching for that something that beats hair loss without beating what makes us men.

2/10/2010 12:12 AM

knowingyou
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 116

@unfortunate,

How about the procyanidin b2 ?? Have you had a look at it? I think Lava212 is using it, and may have a positive effect on hairloss. He is getting it from www.applepoly.com .

2/10/2010 5:28 AM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Knowingyou - I think Lava is taking the pill form of it and it might help, but I think I'm getting the internals down pretty well. I'm looking for a topical that might help - maybe proxiphen-N or dermaheal. I haven't read too many positives on proxiphen-n so I may have to go with Dermaheal. It's just tough, because quitting minoxidil even slowly is already producing a shed and I know things will only get worse for a while. This disease really sucks, but I'm gonna keep fighting it.

2/10/2010 10:31 AM

nonstop
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 337

I'm in the same boat as yourself. The regular rograin caused my scalp to become flaky, so it didn't seem right. I used spectral.dnc and was getting some head rush so though its better not risk it. At the moment I use nizoral cream and emu oil along with Zinc and PTO shampoo in rotation. I wouldn't say this is the solution, but i'm just trying to do some thing. I have been interested in using hydrocortizine cream, but i'm not sure how risky it could be.

2/11/2010 7:50 PM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Nonstop, you and I probably share a lot in common when it comes to being sensitive to hair loss drugs. I am going to get some hydrocortizone cream tomorrow (OTC) and apply it as Jaydee advised for maybe a week (every night) and then lower it to every other night, and then maybe once a week after that to see how it goes. I think at the very least using Hydro for such short periods of time won't do damage, especially not at 1 percent concentration - at least this should deal with the immune attack side of hair loss. There are many other factors, I know, but I intend to fight them with natural Internals as well as topicals. Either way, I know hydro is not going to be nearly as harsh on my body as minox/propecia.

2/12/2010 2:50 AM

Jocko59
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 136

Unfortunate: ApplePoly also has a procyanidin b2 topical in addition to it's apple poly capsules. So you can always try their topical spray if you want to try an minox alternative.

2/12/2010 8:39 AM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

I don't remember if I mentioned it, but I actually did try the Apple Poly topical - for about 6 months - it didn't do jack. I don't think Apple Poly is a legitimate alternative. Besides that, I don't think it's good for hair - it seems like it has a high alcohol content - it really dried out my scalp and left my hair looking like crap when it was on. I highly doubt they are using anything close to the formulation in the original study, but I can't say for sure.

2/12/2010 1:18 PM

Dobika
Regrowth.com Member
I Wanna Get Some Karma

Registered: Nov 2008
Posts: 233

Unfortunate, It's not a topical but I've had really good luck with saw palmetto extract. I get the stuff that's standardized to 85 - 95 % fatty acids, and has pumpkin seed oil, and zinc in it as well. I take 320 mg a day. I've mentioned this here before and some people have commented that they can't tolerate it. It has really helped me reduce DHT. It's fairly inexpensive too. I haven't had any sides with it.

2/12/2010 3:16 PM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Hey Dobika, thanks for the recommendation. I've thought of Saw Palmetto in the past, but am wondering - wouldn't I get the same type of sides that I get with propecia? Or do they work differently?

2/12/2010 5:24 PM

dhtloather1
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 107

You're welcome, unfortunate. I know how much it sucks to have bad side effects from the only proven hairloss medications we have. You sure it was minox that was causing you those problems ? That apple poly crap is a scam. I never even bothered with it. It sounded way too good to be true for me to try. Something that's supposedly working wonders wouldn't be a secret. I don't know what else to say. Fuck this curse (baldness). It has ruined so many lives.

2/12/2010 8:30 PM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

dhtloather - I don't know what to say... The sides were on different occasions from different products. Minox - spectral dnc, promox, scalpmed - same puffy face symptoms - different times - I don't know what the common factor is other than Minox - maybe alcohol? It seems to me that minox was the common denominator, but I'd love to be proven wrong. Interesting thing - I never got it with Super Zix II, but the stuff didn't help my hair. On the other hand - sexual side effects and chest pains behind nipples - from propecia internally or externally (promox). I didn't get the sexual/chest pain sides when I was only on spectral dnc, at least not as obvious that I can remember, if I even did. I still haven't even completely recovered from the propecia sides and that was a year ago. It does suck bigtime.

2/13/2010 8:43 AM

Dobika
Regrowth.com Member
I Wanna Get Some Karma

Registered: Nov 2008
Posts: 233

Unfortunate, like I said I have had good luck with SP extract and without side effects. I tried fin and it worked but the sexual side effects sucked. I do other things too though. Exercise, scalp exercises, multivitam for hair, tocotrienol, natokinaisse, and a good DHT removing shampoo. My doctor said the SP extract was good for me and was happy I stopped the Fin. But I didn't know anything about this when I started and the Fin was a miracle drug for me at the time because it stopped the loss cycle and gave me time to get my shit together and to stop the panic mode I was in.

2/14/2010 7:50 AM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Dobika - have you noticed any regrowth from this regimen? I'm interested in keeping things as natural as possible. SP is probably the closest thing to propecia we have on the natural front - so I'm willing to give it a shot - so you got no sides at all, that's great to hear. I am currently shampooing twice a day with bronner's and scalp is feeling better, I take toco-8, msm, and immortal's top 6 daily. Do you use any topicals? Like Minox? OR even a natural one?

2/14/2010 12:41 PM

Jocko59
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 136

Since you aren't too keen on the apple poly topical maybe you can try the Lamas Serum from the Lamas Beauty website.

http://www.lamasbeauty.com/chinese_scalp_serum.html

2/14/2010 4:20 PM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Jocko, looks kinda interesting... Have you tried it? Know of anyone who has?

2/14/2010 4:44 PM

Jocko59
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 136

Yes, I have been using it for a little over a month. A little soon to report anything perhaps but it does tend to calm down a inflammed scalp. It's supposed to inhibit the build up DHT on the scalp. I'm going to try it for a few more months and see what kind of results, if any that I see.

2/14/2010 6:07 PM

Dobika
Regrowth.com Member
I Wanna Get Some Karma

Registered: Nov 2008
Posts: 233

Unfortunate, I forgot to mention a couple things. Yes I do lasers and I use nioxins follicle booster topical every night. I made my own laser helmet and got regrowth a couple of times but nothing to brag about but I don't expect much regrowth at my age, I'm almost 50 years old. I just want to keep what I have and I've been able to do that. At your age you have a real good chance for regrowth so don't give up. You've got age on your side and are still in the window of time where you can get a lot of your lost hair back.

I've been reading about jaydees regimen and am interested because he's been very successful. Check it out.

2/14/2010 8:00 PM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Dobika, thanks for the words of encouragement. I do believe I can still regrow a lot, because every time I've been on minox I've been able to regrow hair, and even after being on spectral DNC for 5 months, I still have all the dark hairs that sprouted up on my receeded hairline which I never see unless I'm on minoxidil - but it's obvious that area can still regrow. It just needs proper stimulation, without the horrible bodily side effects. I dropped minox a couple weeks ago and am on Jaydee's regimen - bronner's castile baby mild twice a day, and hydro I am getting ready to start. Internally I got back on immortal hair's top 6, msm and toco 8. I'm trying to avoid the dread shed, but I'm sure it will still come. I'm thinking I need to add a natural topical stimulant to continue the hair regrowth, without the sides. Something to at least partially fight the dread shed so I don't lose too much at once. I have some NANO and proxiphen-n on the way, but don't think it will do a whole lote, but who knows. Do you think it could hurt?

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I hope Jaydee's regimen works for me too.

Last Edited On Feb-15-2010 at 4:46 AM.

2/15/2010 2:33 AM

Dobika
Regrowth.com Member
I Wanna Get Some Karma

Registered: Nov 2008
Posts: 233

Unfortunate, I think you've got a good plan, give it time to work, you can always add more later. You've got to stick with these treatments religiously. It takes time to stop and turn things around. Good luck and keep a positive attitude, that's really important. Make sure to exercise and eat a good diet too. Overall fitness is important.

2/15/2010 6:23 AM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

Thanks man. I greatly appreciate the advice and support. I am working out 5 nights a week religiously now, eating a clean diet and going to stick with the plan. I will update on a regular basis on how things are going. Oh, just to add, I am also taking fish oil daily in addition to the supplements I mentioned. I don't think it can hurt.

2/15/2010 9:04 PM

Mary
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: May 2008
Posts: 2

want the magic formula ? 4g minoxidil 5g pentylene glycol (trade name : hydrolite 5) 25g propylene glycol 60g ethanol 10g demin. water cold process. ...shake well for 30 sec. nothing else use 3 ml 2 times a day (morning and evening) that's it !

2/16/2010 6:32 AM

bluefin
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: May 2009
Posts: 87

Really, you think so ? Mmmmm... Can't agree. Minox doesn't do it for everyone.

2/17/2010 5:54 PM

unfortunate
Regrowth.com Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 94

LOL, yeah I agree with ya bluefin... At first I was wondering if the remark was a joke or maybe sarcastic...

Anyway, has anyone else tried Lama's topical? It's of interest to me... Does anyone know if it uses Propelyne Glycol? PG kills my scalp.

Last Edited On Feb-20-2010 at 12:03 AM.

2/19/2010 9:15 PM

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